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Brown Patch and Winter
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Author:  dtsager [ Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Brown Patch and Winter
A suggestion, a question, and a hint:

1) According to the posts on this site, I'm pretty certain that I have Brown Patch in my St. Augustine. It would be nice to have some pictures of this plague posted somewhere on the site so that I can confirm this.

2) Assuming that I do have Brown Patch, does it make sense for me to apply the hordicultural corn meal now that winter has arrived (29 degrees tonight!), or should I wait until the lawn comes back in the spring?

3) A helpful hint - I think my neighbor has managed to get my Brown Patch on his lawn by regularly walking through an infected area in my yard and then going back to his house. Perhaps we should both use the sidewalks more often...
Author:  user_48634 [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Brown Patch and Winter
dtsager wrote:
A suggestion, a question, and a hint:
1) According to the posts on this site, I'm pretty certain that I have Brown Patch in my St. Augustine. It would be nice to have some pictures of this plague posted somewhere on the site so that I can confirm this.
I agree. It would be nice but the way this software works, you have to link to an existing picture on the Internet. That's not all that hard but when the host for the linked picture decides to rename his pictures or put them into different folders, we lose the link. The link has to be on Dirt Doctor. I'll see what I can do.
dtsager wrote:
2) Assuming that I do have Brown Patch, does it make sense for me to apply the hordicultural corn meal now that winter has arrived (29 degrees tonight!), or should I wait until the lawn comes back in the spring?
Doesn't make sense now. It will be gone in the spring anyway.
dtsager wrote:
3) A helpful hint - I think my neighbor has managed to get my Brown Patch on his lawn by regularly walking through an infected area in my yard and then going back to his house. Perhaps we should both use the sidewalks more often...
Yup!
Author:  dtsager [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Thanks!
Thanks for the info - I will look forward to a fresh green patch in the springtime.

Regarding the site improvement, it would make sense to be able to imbed the photo directly within a posting, if possible.

A follow-up question: How important is the compost tea in the scheme of the program? I have been doing everything else, with modest results. I'm beginning to suspect that a weekly dose of biological activity via the compost tea is much more important than I first realized.
Author:  user_48634 [ Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
I agree about the picture embedding. Right now if you have a picture posted somewhere else on the Internet, you can post it here but it is NOT embedded at all. For example, here is my favorite picture of a bull...

Image

The photo is on a website in France and I just linked to it.

How important is compost tea? I wish I knew. I tried making compost tea a couple years ago and got absolutely no change in anything at all. Then three days ago I read that the aquarium chemicals I used to clear the chlorine out of the water killed all the fungi in the tea, so maybe that's why I got nothing. In a couple days I'm going to post a link to a brand new compost tea maker design that has been tested and found to excel at making a good fungal tea. The tea maker is a 5-gallon model and will cost you about $25 at Wal-Mart. The tea itself costs only pennies per 1,000 square feet.
Author:  dtsager [ Thu May 26, 2005 5:38 am ]
Post subject:  Update on Brown Patch
I wanted to give an update on my brown patch issue from the winter. I had two areas that were about 50 square feet that had suffered from a severe case of brown patch. As an experiment I put out "all of the ammendments" (mollases, green sand, lava sand, compost) on one area, and only let the CGM hit the other. There is a huge difference between the two. The "unammended" area is still quite thin and has several nasty weeds, while the treated area is almost indisginguishable at this point.

Three new questions:

1) I am a big fan of the mollases, but a neighbor told me that Dr. Dirt said it is possible to burn the yard with that stuff. What is the latest?

2) The second fertilization is coming up, but I don't know exactly when. I did the CGM in the spring. Any thoughts about what to do for this one? I like the idea of adding carbon, but it seems like I need to add some nitrogen as well.

3) What's in the stuff that is touted as "compost starter?" Is is a bunch of bacteria, or just stuff that bacteria like? If its a bunch of critters, does anyone ever add it directly to their lawn as a critter-boost?
Author:  user_48634 [ Tue May 31, 2005 1:02 am ]
Post subject: 
You can get too much sugar. When that happens you stunt the grass for awhile until the sugar is all used up.

You can fertilize now. I fertilize on Memorial Day.

You like the idea of adding carbon? Just out of curiosity, why? Organic gardeners should try as hard as practical to avoid talking about chemicals (carbon and nitrogen). It is more in line to talk about sugar and protein. You can get both in a balance of sorts from any ground up grain like ORDINARY corn mea, corn GLUTEN meal, soybean meal, flax meal, alfalfa meal or pellets, or what have you.

Compost starter is a gimmick. It is a limited number of microbe species. I would not add to the lawn directly, but there might be no harm.
Author:  dtsager [ Tue May 31, 2005 6:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the info and suggestions, especially about the compost starter.

One further question about the CGM - I understand that there is a "feedstock CGM" that does not really provide the pre-emergent effect that we look for in the spring and fall. I am wondering if the agricultrual CGM has the fertilizer value that we are looking for? I suspect it will be a good bit cheaper than the $20-$25 per bag for the real stuff.

I refer to "carbon" in the same vein that Howard does every week - "dark, rich, fully-composted materials."

A concern - one reason that "organics" gets a bad name is because of statements like, "we should avoid talking about chemicals." Everthing in nature is a "chemical," including the "sugar and protien" that you recommend. As an Engineer I get real frustrated with Howard on this point, but I do understand the context. This type of language furthers the stereotype of the "unscientific chemicalphobes," which really hurts the effort to bring natural soltuions into the mainstream.
Author:  user_48634 [ Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I have heard about two different kinds of CGM. I'd like to hear from someone in the corn processing business about that. Now that I think about it, it seems to me there is a corn mill near where I'm working now. I'll have to check that out.

Regarding carbon and the way Howard uses it: I never heard him talk about carbon, or at least I never connected it with compost. I get to hear Howard down in San Antonio for about 15 minutes on Saturdays in a conversation between our radio organic guy and Howard. They usually waste the time talking about the latest pictures Howard posts to his website. I have heard him admit he's not a scientist, so I share that frustration. Our radio guy used to teach biology so we get at least a modicum of science. Anyway I thought you wanted to add molasses. If you added CGM, you added plenty of "nitrogen" in the form of protein. If you want to add more protein, CGM is good, very good. I don't see a need to add compost or sugar more than once in a lifetime. As long as you feed the microbes, they should stay happy.

Regarding the general discussion of chemistry in organics: I leapt before I looked. I understand that there are people who study biochemistry, and there are people studying biochemistry with respect to organic farming/gardening, but 99.99% of the time I see someone pick a chemical and question whether they have enough of it, that chemical is nitrogen. When were talking about organic gardening, protein, not ammonium nitrate, is the source of plant food. Protein is considered a macromolecule while the salts in chemical fertilizers, after being dissolved in water, are not quite a full molecule. The biochemical ramifications are huge. It could be that plants need nitrogen but the soil microbes need the full meal of protein, carbohydrates, enzymes, vitamins, and minerals. They cannot thrive without all of them. My nightmare is that we will start talking only about N, P, and K, and we'll forget the biology. I realize you were asking about carbon, which I misunderstood to be molasses. But this is the reason I jumped on your 'carbon' statement. Sorry if I was harsh.
Author:  khwoz [ Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:20 am ]
Post subject: 
dtsager, regarding your question on the CGM, I remember Howard talking about this several weeks ago. The stuff you are referring to as feedstock CGM has a very low protein level and would be almost useless. The best I can remember is to look on the bag for a protein level of 26% (or higher). If I got the % level wrong hopefully someone will post correction.
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