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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 3:58 pm 
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Location: McKinney,TX
:?: I have 2 acres on the South Llano River south of Junction, TX that I just purchased----the land is mostly covered with sand burrs and small mesquite ---the ground is rocky ---it has been overgrazed by horses---how do I get the native grasses and plants to return---what is the best way to economically start getting the ground healthy and full of living organisms again---there is some bluestem and side oats gramma in places under agarita bushes and some other thorny bushes I cannot identify----the area has been under stress from drought conditions for most of the last 10 years---I have been a Howard Garrett follower in my yard in McKinney for the past 5 years---and have converted a lot of my neighbors because my yard looks so good and they want to know what I do---but it is a small yard and I use Lava Sand, Green Sand, Corn Glutonmeal, and Gardenville organic fertilizer 3 times a year and aerate the soil---but I don't know an economical way to attack the 2 acres that are bare and rocky and full of sandburrs and mesquite---can anyone give me a simple plan to start with that won't cost a fortune??


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2003 8:42 pm 
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Two acres is small but it might support 3 goats if you manage it right. They will eat the grass and weeds, return manure to the area, and trample it all back into the soil for you. If you use a portable electric fence, you can keep them from returning to an area and overgrazing it. If you can map out the area so as to move them 15-30 times without ever returning to the first spot again, then each spot will have a chance to recover from the grazing before you return them to graze again. Dividing 2 acres by 30 give them a small square pen size of almost 54 feet on a side to get 30 small pens for them. Can your current grass feed 3 goats on an area that size for a week? If not, maybe you should start with 1 or 2 animals.

The length of time you keep them on an area depends on how fast the grass is growing. If it is growing fast (springtime) then you move them more frequently, and vice versa. Ideally, you could let each area rest up to a full year before returning them to pasture they've grazed before. This will properly graze your land for you.

There's more to this, but that should give you an idea for at least one alternative. You could use chickens or ducks if you want, also. This is basically the same alternative with different animals. You could be up to your rear end in eggs if you played it right!!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:47 am 
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Location: McKinney,TX
:?: Thanks for the reply and suggestions---very insightful and helpful....BUT......I am only there about half the time and really do not want to manage animals grazing----there is a lot of wildlife that passes through the area on the way to the river---deer, wild turkey, roadrunners, lots of birdsmaybe quail----I would like improve this as wildlife habitat as well as human habitat(ie get rid of sand burrs)----is there anything you would recommend that wouldn't involve controlled grazing? Thanks again for your help---Clair


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:21 am 
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Location: Austin
Couple of other ideas: One is aerobic compost tea - it acts as a foliar feed, and adds microbes to improve the health of the soil. You can make your own (there are posts in lawn care and other forums on how to do this), buy a machine to make it, or possibly buy some. If you buy some, it needs to have just been made -- otherwise, it will have gone anaerobic. In the Austin area, Natural Gardener has just bought a machine & started selling aerobic tea - I don't know how good it is, just that they are doing it.

Option 2 -- fertilizers designed for pastures rather than yards. We're about to try some fertilizers from Watson Ranch on our place (humate tea, fish & seeweed). Can't really vouch for the quality -- it's our first time trying them -- but I know some other folks on this board have recommended them. Their website is http://www.homestead.com/watsonorganic/home.html. They're designed for large-scale use, and are more economical than the organics designed for people's yards.

You could combine either/both of these with some level of controlled grazing. The very intensive grazing Dchall talks about is great, but you can make improvements with a much less intensive approach. Splitting the 2 acres into 6 pastures, and moving the goats every two months, would make a good compliment to any kind of fertilizing and soil improvements. May be too much work still, I realize -- I'm somewhat in the same boat as you, though on a larger scale.

Judith


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2003 10:19 am 
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Another animal method involves shocking the area. Throw out some bales of alfalfa hay with whatever native seeds you might want growing there. Then bring in 30 head of steers (or 400 goats) for one day with plenty of water. I realize the "damage" that this animal load will do to 2 acres - that's the point. They will eat everything, trample everything (including the seeds and manure), and leave the land looking like the surface of the moon with over 300 cow patties. If the cow patties are not completely flattened or otherwise gone in 3 days, you might consider a day's worth of chickens to scratch around and spread them out. But within a few weeks, the seeds will be sprouting and starting you on your way to pastureland with no more of your involvement. You might return to 100% grass coverage in one season with this shock treatment.

The hard part then is to keep the other browsers off the land while the grass recovers. The horses are gone, now, right? Overgrazing might not be a problem at all if the horses are gone.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2003 7:46 pm 
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Location: McKinney,TX
:?: My neighbor has 5 acres adjacent to my 2 acres---he is interested in going in to restore his land also----would this change any advice you all gave earlier---how many head would we need to graze for say a week---thanks again for your help----also---how much alfalfa would we need and how many/much water troughs---and do you just spread the bales across the property and do you need to tear them apart----and last what time of year would you do this--
Clair


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2003 12:35 am 
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From the shocking point of view, leaving the animals for a week depends on the amount of grass you have for them to eat. Putting a huge herd on for 24 hours will not likely hurt any of the animals if they didn't get enough to eat, but a week is really pushing it. For a shock treatment on a total of seven acres, 100 cattle (one day) would be a max - I know how crazy this sounds. For a week, 1 steer on all 7 acres and he might get hungry at the end of the week.

For water you would need to have a continual supply in a tank with a float valve. How much they drink will depend on the day and how much they eat. The area around the troughs will be the most trampled, so plan for that.

If you're thinking about putting alfalfa out for them, ask the owner to see how they might take to the rich feed. Animals who eat it all the time are accustomed to it but few are raised on it and it could be a problem. Ask the owner of the animals what to feed in addition to your available tonnage of grass.

What time of year? That's a good question. I'm thinking... Right before the rain and not right after the rain. Big help, huh! You want to leave the land trampled and not mucky. You want something that native plant species seeds will sprout in. If you were rotating animals all year, it would not matter what time of year, so that's my answer...it doesn't matter when.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2003 9:39 am 
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:D Thanks for all your ideas---I am going to see if I can do the cattle for a day idea----thanks again--Clair


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:49 pm 
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I get a chuckle out of just thinking about getting 100 head of cows out to a plot for a day. :D

I can just see 5 18-wheeelers full of cows stopping by for the day or maybe stopping the cattle drive on their way up north. :lol: lol


On a serious note - please keep up updated on how this works. I have a couple of place where this may be of value.

Thanks
Jim

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 Post subject: going back to nature
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2003 8:12 pm 
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Location: Lewisville,TEXAS
I also get a chuckle thinking about 100 cows, or 400 goats on land for a day - where on earth would one obtain the "loan" of such livestock?
I would suggest a more natural approach - like broadcasting dry molasses over the 2 acres (50-100lbs per acre) and letting nature take it's course. If you want to encourage the wildlife to return to the area, putting more grazing stock on the land will only delay that. If the land is such that it can be mowed, you can get rid of the sand burrs by consistently mowing them down before they "flower".
Another idea for fall is to plant clover - looks beautiful when it blooms and adds lots of good stuff to the soil. With the removal of grazing animals it is amazing how quickly the land recovers. Whats wrong with mesquite?

Old version of Reduce, Reuse, Recycle:
"Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without".

Linda Cox


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:54 pm 
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I have a bad grass burr problem in my yard(about 2 acres). The Bermuda grows decent but about 2 weeks ago the grassburrs came on and now all you can see is stickers everywhere.

I put about 7lbs/1000 sq ft of Humate(dry, coal looking stuff) on my lawn in February/March. My dad put the same down in April or so and it seems to have worked on his yard. Can anyone explain this? What should I do to help the humate work? Did I put it out too early? I don't think it should make a difference, but I'm a newbie at this so maybe it does. Any help is greatly appreciated. I need to get this whipped so my kids can play in the yard again.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:21 pm 
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Location: Dallas,TX
You done good! The burrs can't live in soil high in humic acid. Just water it in and there is no "late time" as they simply can't germinate/continue to grow in such soil.

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 Post subject: Thanks!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:10 pm 
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That's what I understood should happen, but they are growing. They are growing very well. You think if I watered the bermuda would choke out the burrs? I guess I may have had a low % of humic acid and maybe it wasn't enough. /shrug I'll put some more down this fall and again next spring and hope for a good year next year. I may try mixing some cornmeal in with it this year, seems I heard that helps it spread better. Any ideas would be welcomed.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:42 pm 
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Short of getting a soil test to know how low you are re: humic acid, that's about all I'm good for.

Good luck!

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