Should one worry about mad cow disease and the use of composted cow manure?

I'm pretty sure you are safe.

The only thing I can think of you getting from cow manure is e.coli but I think the composting action kills bacteria anyway.

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In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

From the experience to date, I don't think BSE is considered to be an issue with manure, at least if the manure doesn't contain slaughterhouse refuse. It seems to me that if the disease is spread much if at all by manure, the affliction rate would be much higher and would occur much faster than it apparently is/does. Based on that albeit flimsy observation, manure shouldn't be an issue, regardless of whether the disease is caused by prions, by environmental toxins, or both. Under the prion hypothesis, I don't believe it is impossible for prions to be present in raw manure. Even if they did not exist in the gut, it apparently is not impossible that they could be delivered to manure post-excretion through the nasal secretions or other body fluids from an infected animal. The prion agent thought to cause scrapie appears to be substantially resis­tant to cooking or rendering procedures and to many disinfectants, and highly resistant to environmental conditions. If prions are the cause of BSE/scrapie and if those dieseases can be contracted by eating infected feed/food, then those agents either attack the system before digestion, are resistant to the digestive process, or both. Whether they likewise could/would survive a hot, thorough composting process is a somewhat related but different question. If the BSE etiology is based in exposure to synthetic toxins, I don't see an obvious or increased danger of exposure from composted manure. Based on what we think we know now, I don't believe I'd be afraid to use non-slaughterhouse sourced composted manure. Additional data could change that view.

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In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice, they aren't -- lament of the synthetic lifestyle.

Rather than asking such a question here, where there is really no first hand knowledge of the subject, I would encourage you to do some research on the Internet and then decide for yourself.

Having very many close friends in the UK, where BSE hit in the late 90's, I am well aware of the misinformation, as well as "helping hand" info that starts to spread. The plethora of Internet forums now, compared to then, exacerbates the issue.

Here is a link from a first hand farmer then: http://www.bseinquiry.gov.uk/files/ws/s135a.pdf. You will need Adobe viewer to see it. It is first hand testimony... it is observation... it is nothing more than you will get here... but here it is second hand.

Do a Google search on "BSE +manure" without the quotes and then decide for yourself. Then think: why did the USDA agree, 10 days after the first case was discovered in WA, that the same things they had been fighting against for years as "not necessary" should suddenly be "necessary."

Then ask: why, after a single case in Alberta, in a country that has never allowed downer cattle into the foodchain, did the US ban CDN imports, when we have always allowed downer cattle here... till 2 weeks ago? Then ask why that CDN border is still closed, but we are insisting that the rest of the world should start taking our beef again?

Sound like politics and the USDA lobby?? Perhaps.

That's why I buy my beef from Whole Foods... who have never used downer cattle, nor stock older than ~2 years, before which BSE is not proven to exist.

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...Bill

On the other hand, Whole Foods has no clue about the incredible value of grass fed meats. Neither does Central Market. It's much better to buy from local producers and the co-ops handling their products. Maybe those other stores will catch on some day.

The heavy beef lobby very well may scuttle that downer animal proposal. From http://www.loe.org/ETS/organizations.ph ... 3#feature1 :

"...Agriculture Secretary Ann Veneman is already running into opposition over this rule. When she testified before the House agriculture committee, Texas Democrat Charles Stenholm and others attacked the ban as unscientific and too costly. Now, these lawmakers are very concerned about costs – the loss of export sales to some 50 countries now – and they don’t want to impose new costs on the industry. Given these early complaints from powerful committee members, food safety advocates worry that the rule on downers might not stand. A similar ban was approved two years ago but it was wiped out before it took effect."
+++++

I wonder how continuing a practice that frightens the 50-odd export market countries helps the domestic beef processors. Is it hard to guess which congressmen and senators receive donations from Tyson/IBP, ConAgra, and Cargill?

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In theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice, they aren't -- lament of the synthetic lifestyle.

And, if you investigate the backgounds of the USDA members, they are ALL past employees of the major beef producers, feed conglomerates or the beef lobby group! Who's back gets scratched... the consumer or their former bosses and lobby groups. Venom-en is a true piece of political work, that's for sure!

And Howard, if you read Whole Foods liturature, you will see that all their beef is grazed on native pastures... ALL! With feed supplemented by alfalfa, hay and corn. I will trust them, and their inspection programs, 9 yards to Sunday before I will trust a local, self-policing producer who can readily/accidently mix chicken feed in with the cattle feed. And chicken feed CAN contain scrapie.

Any local producer that wants to conform to WF's tough rules is welcome to apply (and no, I do not work, no do I hold shares, in WF).[/b]

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...Bill

The grass fed beef that Howard is talking about is not supplemented with corn ever in its life. Corn is a grain, not grass. Hay made from grass and legumes is fine as is alfalfa (as a legume), but grains are a different supplement. Grain builds fat that is rich in Omega-6 fats instead of the Omega-3 fats from grass fed. It also seems to strip some of the vitamin A from the fat which whitens that rich, orange color in grain fed beef fat.

The problem with H-E-B and Whole Foods carrying the grass fed is that consumers don't recognize the orange fat as caused by vitamin A. Instead they think there is something wrong with the beef. Then the beef stays on the shelf. So rather than educating their customers, they are going with the USDA flow of white fatted cattle. Also these companies have a requirement for a high amount of beef every day. Most small producers have touble with that.

I think it is ironic that orange fatted beef sits on the shelf while orange food coloring is added to butter and cheese to make it sell!!

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David Hall
Moderator
Dirt Doctor Lawns Forum

hg -

I would be interested in knowing how this information has amazingly escaped two entities such as Whole Foods and Central Market.

Dchall -

Would you care to reveal the source(s) of your information regarding Whole Foods beef?

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Keeping it clean and green here, Boss.
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

Regarding orange fat: According to grass-fed beef organizations and producers on lists like this one, when consumers, even organic consumers, hold up white fatted meat against orange fatted meat, unless they know they are looking at beta carotene in the orange fat, they choose the white fat beef. The USDA has been drilling consumers to choose marbling and white fat for decades.

Regarding small volume and big grocery chains: According to grass-fed producers who frequent lists like this one, the chain stores want a label that will be in the store every day, not one that sells out a small volume and the customers have to wait another month or so before restocking. I'm not sure what volume they would need, but it would seem to have to be a feedlot situation with at least hundreds of animals per month. I've not heard of anyone doing grass-fed with 200 calves per month to replenish the 200 stockers that leave each month. That is a very serious operation. If I've done my math right, that requires about 5,000 head to sustain a withdrawl of 200 stockers per month.

Search the Internet for 'grass-fed beef' and you'll likely come across my sources.

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David Hall
Moderator
Dirt Doctor Lawns Forum

This is the statement I was referring to. IMO Whole Foods does an above average job of educating their customer on the benefits of the products they carry. Second your definition" USDA flow of white fatted cattle." what are the facts of the beef marketed by Whole Foods.


I don't know what their volumes are, but if a producer cannot meet the business demands as you imply. Then not carrying the small producer's product would be for business reasons, and not for lack of educating their customers.

I am not employed by HEB or Whole Foods.

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Keeping it clean and green here, Boss.
Reduce, Reuse, Recycle

Do y'all think this scare is going to slow down the sales of blood and bone meal in the USA this year?

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The entire Kingdom of God can be totally explained as an Organic Garden (Mark 4:26)
William Cureton

Maybe my Whole Foods and H-E-B Central Market are different. I've looked for educational material on grass fed beef and have not found any. Am I looking in the wrong place (by the meat counter)? When Howard basically came up with the same sense that I had, I though I had done my due diligence

I certainly don't want to sound like I'm closed minded about this. If they have something to read, I want to find it.

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David Hall
Moderator
Dirt Doctor Lawns Forum

Dave-
Have you been to this web site for research and educational support? She, Jo Robinson, was on Howard's show a while back.
http://www.eatwild.com/
Tony M

I've been to that website so many times I can't count. It is a must read for anyone who wants to learn about grass fed beef - very educational. I'm just saying I don't see the grocery stores promoting the health benefits or the animal welfare benefits of the product.

How did we end up talking about grass fed beef on a landscaping forum??? Looking back I see the slow drift. I haven't been helping keep on topic, have I

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David Hall
Moderator
Dirt Doctor Lawns Forum